Hate Law: Pedophiles overlooked, used as pawns
15 November 2007(@ link):
LONDON, November 12, 2007 – Ken Livingstone, the Mayor of London, has today supported the Government’s plan to make it an offence to incite hatred against people on the basis of their sexual orientation.
Why am I not holding my breath?
The Mayor was adamant that this move would not infringe on freedom of speech:
“Such a law would not criminalise people being rude, let alone a free exchange of ideas, debate or differences of opinion”.
…be that for everyone, barring the (admittedly repugnant) cretins of the far right:
Mr. Livingstone gave as an example hatred incited by the far right when they assert that all homosexuals are paedophiles.
“Such abuse can have devastating consequences on the lives of individuals, leading to fear, isolation, bullying, physical and verbal attacks, he continued. “Good community relations are destroyed by such incitement to hatred”.
So not only is the Mayor of London supporting a new measure that would substantially threaten freedom of discourse whilst being open to further draconian interpretations, but he wishes to protect contemporary, assimilationist gays from the “homophobic” crime of being associated with another sexual orientation!
Far from being for a broad and honest protection of all sexual minorities, the Mayor of London wishes to “protect” just one of them from being associated with another, thus cynically and tacitly endorsing the very real and far more prevalent tide of hatred against pedophiles.
This is not equality. It’s social stratification.
10 Responses to “Hate Law: Pedophiles overlooked, used as pawns”
November 15th, 2007 at 3:35 pm
“Far from being for a broad and honest protection of all sexual minorities, the Mayor of London wishes to “protect” just one of them from being associated with another, thus cynically and tacitly endorsing the very real and far more prevalent tide of hatred against pedophiles.”
Very true.
Gay men are determined to dissociate themselves from paedophiles, but it is clear that there is a much higher occurrence of homosexuality amongst paedophiles than there is amongst teleiophiles. I discussed this here. There is a very real link between homosexuality and paedophilia. Denial from gay men will not change that fact.
So, as you have clearly and correctly stated, this is not about equality, this is about populist approval. Most people in the UK do not particularly hate gay men, but they do hate paedophiles. This new law is no revolution and it’s nothing new; it’s just agreeing with the masses.
I actually contacted the recently formed “Ministry of Justice” (an appropiately Orwellian name) to ask how they would protect other sexual minorities from oppression, but they ignored me.
We’ll be protected from discrimination under the aspect of the bill which protects people with “mental disorders” from discrimination, but I agree that we should be protected under the aspect of bill which prohibits discrimination against people of non-standard sexuality.
November 15th, 2007 at 4:11 pm
I think that I have already explained to you, my ideas about homosexuality and pedophilia.
There are indeed more pedophiles in the homosexual population. This is not due to anything such as the “inherently pedophilic” nature of homosexuality, but because pedophilia is more inherently bisexual (due to the child aesthetic being more androgynous). Thus, becuase secondary sexual character matters less for pedophiles, more of them will deviate either side of bisexuality - drawn by features that are largely socially constructed, and not a matter of hardwired sexual orientation, but social conditioning. This is not to say that pedophilia itself is socially determined.
November 17th, 2007 at 1:34 pm
Once again you make a great point! I think you really have a great blog and I shall promote it whenever I can.
Regarding the fact that there are more pedophiles in the gay community than heterosexual, I think it’s right, they will of course always deny this, gays aren’t still widely accepted as it is as to attract even more attention on them.
November 18th, 2007 at 5:24 am
“I think you really have a great blog and I shall promote it whenever I can.”
Thanks.
“Regarding the fact that there are more pedophiles in the gay community than heterosexual, I think it’s right, they will of course always deny this, gays aren’t still widely accepted as it is as to attract even more attention on them.”
I think gays have gone further than simply denying the link between homosexuality and paedophilia; they feel they can use us as scapegoats to attract bigots’ attentions away from their orientation.
December 26th, 2007 at 12:38 pm
Livingstone is a Communist and an anti-Semite. We shouldn’t be surprised that he’s a paedophobe as well.
I don’t agree with the poster who wrote about children being more attractive to homosexuals because they’re androgynous, though. (How does that work?) The reason there are more gay paedophiles proportionately is simply because homosexuality itself is caused by a sort of moral and emotional arrested development.
What is odd (though logical) is that homosexuals tend not to have children themselves, and so they target other people’s instead - whether they actually like then or not.
December 26th, 2007 at 4:01 pm
“I don’t agree with the poster who wrote about children being more attractive to homosexuals because they’re androgynous, though. (How does that work?)”
I also disagree with Daniel’s explanation, especially because it doesn’t specifically explain how a paedophile will “deviate either side of bisexuality.” It could be said that I’m being harsh, as it’s virtually impossible to specify the exact factors which lead to the development of non-heteroteleiophilic sexuality, however I don’t believe that there is any social construction which leads to one becoming male-attracted.
“The reason there are more gay paedophiles proportionately is simply because homosexuality itself is caused by a sort of moral and emotional arrested development.”
I don’t feel that paedophiles have arrested moral development. Much of the world is significant less moral than non-offending/non-contact paedophiles.
February 12th, 2008 at 5:54 am
Forget the above post [post has been removed to avoid confusion - admin], it was ill-written and some sentences don’t even make sense.
Corrected form:
“it is clear that there is a much higher occurrence of homosexuality amongst paedophiles than there is amongst teleiophiles.”
I love when people — whether conservatives or pedophiles — use different kinds of sexual orientation which are labeled similarly in order to suggest bad thing about homosexuals. Luckily, available evidence allows for a very easy rebuttal against those inappropriate conflations, and shows your kind of “homosexuality”/”bisexuality” (desire for boys or boys/girls) is very different from our kind (desire for men or men/women). First off, User is correct in asserting that most child molesters are not actual pedophiles, rather they are situational offenders, but that is true only when it comes to men who prey on girls. Men who prey on boys are predominantly pedophilic; their sexual responses to prepubertal and pubescent boys are much higher than their responses to either adult males or females (IDENTIFYING SEXUAL PREFERENCES IN INTRAFAMILIAL AND EXTRAFAMILIAL CHILD SEXUAL ABUSERS, by Frenzel and Lang).
Studies indicate that men who molest boys either have a clear sexual orientation directed at children, — or they are mostly heterosexual in their adult sex lives.
On the one hand, normal (teleiophilic) homosexuals are 5-10 times more attracted to adult men than to prepubertal boys, while normal (teleiophilic) heterosexuals are 3-5 times more attracted to adult women than to prepubertal girls (from “Heterosexual Aversion in Homosexual Males”, By KURT FREUND, RON LANGEVIN, STEPHEN CIBIRI and YAROSLAW ZAJAC). Therefore, there’s no evidence gay men are more attracted to boys than straight men are to girls. Rather, evidence available from this and other studies by K. Freund argue otherwise.
On the other hand, homosexual pedophiles are 2.35 to 4 times more attracted to underage boys than to adult men, while heterosexual child molesters are 1.52 to 1.88 more attracted to underage girls than to adult females (from “Differential Sexual Responding Among Four Groups of Sexual Offenders Against Children”, by William D. Murphy, Mary R. Haynes, Susan J. Stalgaitis, and Barry Flanagan).
Homosexual pedophiles are very different from homosexual men. In fact, it seems most child molesters against male children are heterosexual in their adult preferences:
- 66% of men who molest boys prefer adult women over men as sexual partners, according to one study. While those 66% molest and be attracted to prepubertal boys, the 33% who prefer adult men molest mostly adolescent males, who have much more clear secondary sex characteristics than prebupertal boys (”SEXUAL OFFENDERS AGAINST MALE CHILDREN: SEXUAL PREFERENCES”, by W. L. MARSHALL, H . E. BARBAREEan d JENNIFER BUTT).
- In a large sample of men who molest boys (more than 1,000 of them), 70% said they were exclusively or predominantly heterosexual in their adult preferences (http://www.childmolestationprevention.org/pdfs/study.pdf).
In effect, I’d argue there’s more continuity between normal heterosexuality and heterosexual pedophilia than between normal homosexuality and homosexuality pedophilia. As the above data show, men who molest girls are also somewhat attracted to female adults, while men who molest boys are not attracted (usually) to male adults; those latter either have a clear preference for children (”Replication of the Massachusetts Treatment Center child molester typology in a Canadian sample”, Jan Looman), or they are actually heterosexuals. It’s rare for an actual gay man (a homosexual teleiophilic, an androphile) to molest boys.
If you guys want to advocate pedophilia, that’s your deal, and I’m deeply sorry for you. I know you didn’t choose to be this way, I know you, more than anybody else in this green Earth have to struggle to accept yourselves, but, no matter how much you deny it, “loving” the children you love will ultimately, more often than not, hurt them for long. And please, don’t try to make us (gay men) look anything like you, because not only we deny we are like you and wish to distant ourselves as much as possible from your actions, but also many scientific studies (a little bit of which a quoted above) involving either gay men or pedophiles show we are very different from you. Refrain from trying to advancing your causes at the expense of our lives and causes.
February 12th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
Hello Luiz,
I don’t think that the article was designed to attack or slander gay people. It was clearly a criticism of the British government, who believe that it’s okay to attack one sexuality while promoting another.
First of all, try to avoid conflating paedophilia with child molestation; you use the terms synonymously, which makes your argument confusing. Facts about child molesters are often not applicable to paedophiles, and vice versa.
I believe that the occurrence of homosexuality in paedophiles is more frequent than it is in teleiophiles, but I am not claiming that there is a higher occurrence of paedophilia in teleiophilic homosexuals than in teleiophilic heterosexuals. You can read about this here. As you can see, I do believe that there is a link between homosexuality and paedophilia, but interpreting that as a statement that most gay men are paedophiles is a gross misinterpretation of my argument.
I have not seen the Frenzel & Lang study, however I have seen numerous studies and findings which suggest that most child sex offenders are non-paedophiles, whether they are heterosexual or homosexual. Please see this collection of studies and findings posted by one of our authors.
I personally do not advocate or support adults having sex with children, so I insist that you refrain from accusing me of doing such. I advocate the acceptance of paedophiles who don’t have sex with children. Daniel Lievre - the author of the above article - disagrees with me in some circumstances, however I see no support of adults having sex with children in his article.
February 13th, 2008 at 1:34 am
User, that’s fair enough. I agree with you that not all child molesters are pedophiles, and that not all pedophiles are child molesters. But it seems to be a fact that most of what is currently known about pedophiles comes from the child molesting population, since few people in the non-criminal population would admit to being predominantly attracted to children.
The Frenzel and Lang study relied on phallometric devices to diagnose pedophilia; i.e., while most studies diagnose pedophilia on the basis of subjective report, Frenzel and Lang diagnosed it on the basis of physiological reactions. If one subject react to prepubertal children more than to adults, he’s diagnosed as a pedophile. Their study, and many other studies conducted by means of phallometric devices, such as those performed by Kurt Freund, Michael Seto, and Ray Blanchard, showed that while men who molest girls are predominantly teleiophilic, those who molest boys are not. Disparate results are probably the result of different methodologies (self-report fantasies and desires vs. physiological reactions).
And yes, now I realize that nowhere sexual interactions between children and adults were condoned, however, my confusion resulted from your own comments. The fact that the aforementioned Mayor protested right-wingers’ suggestions that gay men are child molesters was protested as evidence that pedophiles (not child molesters) were being used as pawns, and that both right-wingers and gay activists use pedophiles as scapegoats.
February 13th, 2008 at 1:42 am
Oh, and just out of curiosity, it seems that Daniel is at least partially correct when he attributes the high percentage of pedophiles who act out with same-sex children to androgynous character of children before puberty. In “Deficient Erotic Gender Differentiation in Pedophilia: A Follow-Up”, K. Freund compared the degree of gender differentiation in homosexual and heterosexual teleiophiles to that of heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual pedophiles. Both groups of teleiophiles differentiated between males and females more than homosexual and bisexual pedophiles, while heterosexual pedophiles stood in-between teleiophiles and the other pedophiles.