Understanding Fantasy
15 July 2007Should paedophiles be allowed to spend time with children? Is an attraction to children “mentally sound?”
The resounding replies to these questions will be a very loud “NO!” Everyone “knows” that paedophiles will always act on their urges and everyone knows that they’re mentally ill…. actually, that couldn’t be further from the truth [1] [2]. If you don’t want to trust my articles, then you may wish to read the research of a non-paedophile, Brett Kahr.
While his book doesn’t deal specifically with minor-attraction, it does deal with sexual fantasies, including paedophilia, and is therefore highly relevant to understanding this attraction.
Excerpt #1
“Many fantasies contain strong imagery of sadism, masochism and other forms of harm. If any of us could manage to put many of our more aggressive fantasies into practice, we would end up in prison.“
So, heterosexuals fantasise about abusive activity, but usually don’t act upon those fantasies. There is no evidence to suggest that paedophiles have weaker impulse control than heterosexuals.
Excerpt #2
“I interviewed many happily married people who harboured very aggressive fantasies — often about their beloved spouses”
Having fantasies involving what would be - if acted upon - abuse of people in their care is not unique to minor-attracted people. Heterosexuals frequently fantasise about actions which, if put into practice, would involve the abuse of those who they care for.
Excerpt #3
“Among the clinical interviewees whose fantasies could be described as “outlandish” I detected no traces of formal mental illness.“
Clearly many heterosexuals would consider sexual fantasies about children to be “outlandish,” hence paedophilia’s inclusion in the DSM. When one investigates the mental condition of people with “deviant” fantasies, they find that these people are rarely mentally ill.
You may think that I’m taking this article out of context, however paedophilic fantasies are discussed here:
Excerpt #4
If we fantasise about something “illegal”, does this mean that we may be at risk of acting it out?
Fortunately, fantasy often exerts a hugely containing function for the human mind and, as a result, we manage to encapsulate some of the more aggressive and destructive aspects of our personalities in the fantasy content. I talked to many doctors, priests, social workers, nurses and other members of the “caring professions” who had very violent fantasies that they had never enacted and will never enact. If the fantasy becomes perverse — in other words, unmiti-gatedly sadistic, repeated compulsively and unceasingly — then it would represent a somewhat higher risk of ultimate enactment. However, mercifully, even those with compelling perverse paedophilic fantasies, for example, will often refrain from ever harming children in real life.
There are many paedophiles who don’t and won’t offend.
Excerpt #5
“For the most part, my clinical data indicates that fantasy structures remain reasonably constant throughout adult life”
This is why one can’t “be cured of paedophilia.”
Excerpt #6
“How often do we lie about our sexual fantasies?
“I do not know the answer, although on the basis of my clinical work I suspect that human beings lie quite regularly about their fantasies. I remain impressed by the number of times that men and women to whom I spoke prefaced their discussion of sexual fantasies with the qualifying phrase “I’ve never told this to anyone before”. I certainly noted a distinction between “true fantasies” and “pub fantasies”.”
Many people state that, if they knew a paedophile, they would kill or otherwise inflict some kind of harm upon him. The fact is that, considering the large number of paedophiles present in the general population, and the human tendency to keep one’s fantasies secret (as mentioned above), the vast majority of people will have colleagues or friends who are closeted paedophiles.
Excerpt #7
“As a psychotherapist I have met too many people over the years whose fantasies have troubled them (because of religious prohibitions, parental prohibitions, repetitions of early sexual abuse or any combination thereof) and who have desperately attempted to erase these sexual fantasies from their minds; but in virtually every case the fantasies continued to erupt into consciousness and could not readily be avoided. Certainly, highly traumatised individuals have little conscious control over their fantasies. On the whole, I have found that we may not be the ultimate architects of our sexual fantasy lives, much as we may wish to be. As a young gay male patient once reported: “If I could be straight, I would. Life would be so much easier and my parents would be cooler about everything. But I can’t. I just can’t fantasise about women. So that’s that.”
Sexual fantasies - regardless of how unpopular or “deviant” some are - can’t be altered.
–
Sexual fantasy is…. well…. it’s fantasy. Humans can usually control the way they act upon their impulses, whether they’re heterosexual or paedophilic. Many people fantasise about activities which would, if put into practice, be abusive; however, if all people who had abusive fantasies were removed from those they fantasise about, we’d all be living on islands.
10 Responses to “Understanding Fantasy”
July 16th, 2007 at 2:10 am
who needs antis when sick fucks like BLueRibbon are willing to put in all this work proving just how fucking completely batshit insane pedophiles really are? keep up the great work!
July 16th, 2007 at 5:41 am
In Kahr’s recent documentary, 6% of his respondents (male and female) stated that they had fantasised about having sex with someone under 16.
That would extrapolate to ca. 2,000,000 in the UK, who have fantasised about having sex with a minor.
ca. 18,000,000 in the USA.
ca. 396,000,000 in the world.
Of course, these can only be seen as a minimum …
… and Petra Luna suggests 20%
WM
July 16th, 2007 at 6:04 am
“Our results are also consistent with previous findings in failing to discover any obvious links between paedophilia and aggressive or psychotic symptoms. The majority of paedophiles, however socially inappropriate, seem to be gentle and rational.”
Glenn D. Wilson, PhD
University of London Institute of Psychiatry
*****
“With the exception of the tautological diagnosis of “sexual deviate,” little clinically significant pathology was found among either “pedophiles” or “sex offenders against minors.”"
Paul Okami, PhD
Amy Goldberg, PhD
University of California, Los Angeles
*****
“Individuals whose sexual orientation is directed toward children manifest the same range of personality, temperamental, and character traits as individuals whose sexual orientation is directed toward adults. A recent Journal article documented that the vast majority of individuals with pedophilia showed no evidence of either antisocial or narcissistic personality disorder. It may be no easier for a person with pedophilia to change his or her sexual orientation than it is for a homosexual or heterosexual individual to do so.”
Fred Berlin, M.D.
National Institute for the Study, Prevention, and Treatment of Sexual Trauma
WM
July 16th, 2007 at 6:41 am
Thanks WM.
I really need to write an article specifically about why one can’t be “cured” of an attraction to children.
July 16th, 2007 at 7:01 am
“It may be no easier for a person with pedophilia to change his or her sexual orientation than it is for a homosexual or heterosexual individual to do so”
When exactly did Fred Berlin write this? The last time that I read of him, he seemed to be rabidly insistant that pedophilia can be “cured”.
July 16th, 2007 at 9:12 am
“When exactly did Fred Berlin write this? The last time that I read of him, he seemed to be rabidly insistant that pedophilia can be “cured”.”
…. according to Wikipedia
July 16th, 2007 at 10:28 am
Am J Psychiatry 157:838, May 2000
2000 American Psychiatric Association
Letter to the Editor
Treatments to Change Sexual Orientation
FRED S. BERLIN, M.D., PH.D. Baltimore, Md.
The Journal recently published a “Position Statement on Psychiatric Treatment and Sexual Orientation” that had been approved by the Board of Trustees of the American Psychiatric Association (1). That statement correctly cautions mental health professionals that there is little scientific evidence to support the efficacy of treatments designed to change sexual orientation.
That statement was intended to address the matter of homosexuality and to take a clear stand “against discrimination, prejudice, and unethical treatment…, including discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation” (p. 1131).
The psychiatric profession still correctly considers pedophilia to be a mental disorder.
However, like heterosexuality and homosexuality (orientations that differ from one another on the basis of differences in sexual attraction), pedophilia, too, can be thought of as a sexual orientation that is different from others on the basis of age of attraction. As with other sexual orientations, irrespective of the relative contributions of genetics and environment, maturing individuals discover the nature of their own attractions; such attractions are not the consequence of a volitional decision.
Historically, untold numbers of human beings have been both demonized and vilified simply because their sexual makeups differ from the norm.
In the case of pedophilia, society must insist, for good reason, that persons who are sexually attracted to children are forbidden from acting on these attractions. As with alcoholism, such persons need to have access to effective treatments that can enable them to successfully resist succumbing to unacceptable temptations.
However, just as has been the case historically with homosexuality, society is currently addressing the matter of pedophilia with a balance that is far more heavily weighted on the side of criminal justice solutions than on the side of mental health solutions.
Individuals whose sexual orientation is directed toward children manifest the same range of personality, temperamental, and character traits as individuals whose sexual orientation is directed toward adults.
A recent Journal article (2) documented that the vast majority of individuals with pedophilia showed no evidence of either antisocial or narcissistic personality disorder. It may be no easier for a person with pedophilia to change his or her sexual orientation than it is for a homosexual or heterosexual individual to do so.
Without condoning sexual misconduct (and without equating the consequences of acting on an attraction toward children with the consequences of acting on attractions toward adults), the American Psychiatric Association should develop a contemporary policy statement regarding pedophilia. It should encourage nondiscriminatory and objective public policies and professional education, increased availability and access to appropriate psychiatric care, and the immediate establishment of an intensive research effort to more effectively address this important societal and mental health issue.
REFERENCES
1. Position statement on psychiatric treatment and sexual orientation. Am J Psychiatry 1999; 156:1131
2. Raymond NC, Coleman E, Ohlerking F, Christenson GA, Miner M: Psychiatric comorbidity in pedophilic sex offenders. Am J Psychiatry 1999; 156:786–788[Abstract/Free Full Text]
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/157/5/838
WM
July 16th, 2007 at 11:02 am
Apart from this statement,
,that’s an extremely interesting article.
July 16th, 2007 at 10:21 pm
This article will be useful, thanks.
>I really need to write an article specifically about why one can’t be “cured” of an attraction to children.
It would be convincing to include testimonies from people who have been “treated” for their paedophilia, or who tried to “cure” themselves. B/GC posters are one obvious source. helping-people.info has two accounts:
“I have met clients who started this kind of treatment [to ‘cure’ their paedophilia] as a warm lively person and who have been changed into ‘a stiff wooden doll’ after it.”
~Frans Gieles, “Helping people with pedophilic feelings”
“My sexual feelings for boys went away partially for about a year, and then at the end of the year I started waking up screaming and hollering with nightmares, and I would see a pitful of snakes and they were just everywhere and I would be screaming to get away from them. […] ‘Were your feelings towards boys reduced by the therapy?’ They were reduced in the sense that my penis did not show the difference, but I still enjoyed being a teacher because I could be close to boys. I really don’t think that feelings for boys or whoever we have feelings for has all that much to do with how much erection you have, but this is what they were reducing it to. […]rather than destroy my feelings towards boys they destroyed me as an individual, it destroyed my security.”
~Agner Fog, “Paraphilias and Therapy”
July 17th, 2007 at 3:01 am
“It would be convincing to include testimonies from people who have been “treated” for their paedophilia, or who tried to “cure” themselves. B/GC posters are one obvious source. helping-people.info has two accounts”
Yes, that’s a good point.